Order Online Now!

Paul Weigel: 00:00:00

Hey everybody, welcome to get checks and stories of power and perseverance, hope and inspiration. I'm Paul Weigel. And today I'm so so excited to have Victoria Brumfield, the CEO of USA Triathlon with us. Welcome.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:00:15

Thank you, Paul. So good to be here.

Paul Weigel: 00:00:17

It is so cool to have you. For those of you who've been following this channel, you've known my story about being a triathlete. And that like being an Ironman and going through my training, that that was one of the ways that I found out that I was sick with my cancer. And that by being an active triathlete during my treatment, it really gave me hope and inspiration to carry through that six weeks after I started my chemotherapy, I did a little sprint triathlon at Lake Stevens. And then six months after finishing my chemo overall and all treatment, I finished Ironman Whistler, and so it has been so critical to me what the triathlon community has meant. And then actually, that's how I met Vic, was that right at Vickers was was brought in as the CEO of USA Triathlon in November of 2022. And we were both at the a sprint triathlon here in Tempe, Arizona, you had just been appointed. And you were so cool and gracious with your team. And you totally epitomized of what it meant to be a servant leader, that you're recognizing and praising the work that the team had done. I think it was the college Women's Championship, which I which I know is become a really big focus for USA Triathlon. So can you say some a little bit about the hell, we're bringing up youth within the USA Triathlon community? Before I dive into a bunch of different questions,

Victoria Brumfield: 00:01:52

I can, but I also want to start with it was not difficult at all, to connect you to our team to share your story, Paul, because your stories, it's not only so moving, but it just resonates with so many people who find the sport or who finds strength in the sport in a way that gets them through their life's challenges. And so I just really appreciate you sharing, and I'm really grateful to be a part of your story. So thank you.

Paul Weigel: 00:02:17

Well, thank you, you actually were were the very first people I reached out to based on how important USA try was to me and based on that first time we talked so and let alone the support USA Triathlon has had and sharing the story of for those of you who don't know, they took, they took part of an excerpt from the book that I've written and to have a q&a as part of their most recent main magazine to help share that story. So it is super cool. So So going back to that going back to kick going back to kids and what's going on with because I know USA Triathlon is growing and changing and you're doing just so many so many different amazing things.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:03:01

Yeah, we are in a huge focus of ours is in youth triathlon, you know, we don't have the luxury of being a scholastic sport. I don't know if you grew up playing sports. But most kids, when they go into elementary school, junior high school or high school, they have the option to say I want to be on the cross country team, or I want to be on the soccer team or play basketball. And unfortunately, they don't have that option as a part of school to say, I want to be a triathlete. And so what we think about every day is how do we help amplify infrastructure that already exists? Or how do we create it in a way that is sustainable and scalable so that we can have more youth programming and more communities so that when your kid says, hey, I want to go not just do one sport and over specialize in swimming, or running, I actually want to go do three sports at one time in one spot, we want to make sure that there's a place for your kids to do that. And so an example of that is we're working with a lot of really passionate donors. And this is the most amazing part of building youth programming. There are so many people who are passionate about it. And they're passionate about it in a way that they're also willing to give, to help build it and help support it. So we created through the help of two donors, just as an example Dave Alexander and Phoenix, and Jon Cassar, Madison, New Jersey and Philadelphia region, we've created youth programming that's helped nearly 2000 Kids in the last year and it's in local community centers and in schools and creating fundraising around it so that kids have an opportunity to experience the sport so that hopefully all as they get older, that it's something that they can always go back to because this is a lifelong sport. So that's where we're really thinking about with kids going through to college, the NCAA program, we've talked about it a lot, but not everybody may know that it is so hard. Word to become an NCAA sport. The NCAA doesn't just add new sports, it's very, very difficult. We've invested millions of dollars of working with different universities to start a program. They're all women's programs, because thanks to Title Nine, supporting women's sports, we were able to start with women's sports. We have over 40 universities, we're on the pathway to become a championship sport. And it's growing everyday, we just signed you're gonna love this poll, we just signed a new University Scholar debt, it's a university for the deaf and hard of hearing, and they're starting their first ever women's collegiate program. So it's, it's an opportunity, right, that not just creates a pathway for university women, it also creates an opportunity internationally for athletes who may be deaf or hard of hearing to come compete at the collegiate level. And it creates a pathway for young people who may want to participate in sport, and not understand a pathway for them, but now be able to see that okay, if this is something that I'm experiencing, I'm deaf and hard of hearing, or I'm supportive of this community, I can go to this university and compete on a college team. That's incredibly exciting.

Paul Weigel: 00:06:12

It is so exciting. And I know that one of the things that has been so important to you and I skipped over your bio is we don't need that. No, but but one of the things that has been super important was that you are the first female CEO and leave part of the leadership team. And really, the commitment to diversity, equity and inclusion is such a neat and powerful message about what USA Triathlon is doing. You want to say a little bit more about that, because there is so much value in bringing together so many communities kind of in the way you're talking

Victoria Brumfield: 00:06:48

about it. So it's interesting to think about Paul, because I never set out to be the first, right like I just actually, when I first took the job here, and we can talk more about this i Everyone I talked to told me I shouldn't take the job, I had a few different options. I've lived in New York City for almost 20 years. And every time I laid out all the options to people I admired to seek their advice, not one person told me to take this job at USA Triathlon. But I just knew, you know, speaking of your gut like this was, I knew that this is where I could make the biggest impact, where I could learn the most and where it could have the most fun. And I chose to follow my intuition. And I came here, when I took the job at USAT. I didn't even know this at the time, I was the first woman above senior manager in the history of USA Triathlon, this was in 2018. And I started as Chief of Staff, so I was on the executive leadership team, they never had a woman above senior manager. So just that moment of me coming in, I realized was a historic moment in the organization. And, of course, I didn't think much of it, I just wanted to do a great job and be the best version of myself and help the organization be the best version of itself. And what evolved is for the organization to be the best version of itself. It needed to have better representation. And now I'm on I'm the CEO, our executive leadership team is more female, we have more women on the executive leadership team than men, and our director level leadership is equal men, male, female. And what we found was right that if you really want to elevate your organization or a sport, it has to be reflective of the community you serve. And, and for me, I feel like from a gender diversity, we are much more reflective of the sport. And I'm really proud of that. I think that's part of the the decisions we're making now are decisions that I think better reflect the needs of the sport, because we better reflect the sport. And as we think about diversity, the way I think about it, the way our team thinks about it is that our responsibility is to connect with those who are doing amazing work to support diversity, equity, inclusion, to increase access, connect with them, let them tell us what they need, so that we can best support them. And then most importantly, just like your story, amplify those stories in a way that it inspires others to follow in their path. Because there's already so much great work that's happening in so many inspiring individuals that are doing innovative things that are really working, and we just need to help tell their stories.

Paul Weigel: 00:09:44

And that is phenomenal. You mentioned the needs of the sport and so many needs kind of at a grassroots level. I know that that has been a big message as you're looking at the future of USA team. Yep. What are some of those needs that you're seeing and hearing out there?

Victoria Brumfield: 00:10:00

Well, there's, there's a lot and I think this goes back to we have a really big and complex family in triathlon. So the needs of the sport depend on who we're talking about in our family. So we have the businesses behind the sport, right? These are, these are the coaches and the race directors in the clubs. These are the individuals, sole proprietors, who are dedicating their time and resources to creating sport for athletes. So I think about, you know, Andre Chung, he's a race director in Trumbull, Connecticut. He just put on a race this past weekend. For less than 100 people. It's small, it's not his primary business, but he's creating community in his hometown, or Merrill McDonald, Merrill produces the longest ever nonprofit triathlon. It's been around for over 40 years. She's an African American woman, she started this race to benefit her husband, who I can't remember he, he, it was to benefit Cancer Society. I can't remember prostate cancer maybe, but it was a purpose driven, and this initiative and she is our only black female race director, we need to make sure that we are telling her story to inspire other people that look like her to start businesses and create more and create races for more athletes to participate in. Another great example is Yvonne Spencer, Yvonne Spencer created a club called fast chicks. That's all about empowering, supporting mentoring, women of color in the sport. So these are just a few examples. mashanda Speaking of great podcasts, but Shandra she, she goes by with Shonda shines. She has a podcast called I think it's called try beginners. But it's it's all about welcoming in new people into the sport who may not otherwise see themselves in the sport. And so if we can help support these organizations, through grants, through storytelling, through resources, through marketing, anything that we can do to help them grow their businesses, tell their stories, bring more people into the sport. Everybody wins.

Paul Weigel: 00:12:13

Well, in your point about bringing people into the sport, and I know that so many people the first thing that when I say I'm an I'm a triathlete, and they will say, Oh my gosh, Kona, and it's gonna be so hard. And are you an Iron Man? I'm gonna say, Well, yes, I am. But But just as much they get overwhelmed with vape looking from the outside of how big and complex an Iron Man is, versus those, those smaller kind of beginner races and these questions and, and the desire and just kind of breaking down so many of those barriers, right.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:12:47

And it's also this misconception that a shorter race is a beginner race. A lot of people do start with shorter races, but the majority of triathlons in the United States are four course races. And our goal is to get more people starting to race, and to get them to race more often and to get to them to race for a lifetime. And I love long distance racing, I'm going to be doing like Placid. Hopefully, Mike Riley was late enough to call my name. And that's, that's wonderful. That's a big aspirational part of the sport. But it's hard to do that type of distance. For a lifespan. It's hard to do that type of distance often. But what you can do often are shorter, more accessible races. And those are easier races to get people into the sport racing because the barriers to entry are lower. You know, I did the Nashville women's triathlon last spring. It was an incredible race in the heart of Nashville, I rented a beach cruiser from a bike shop across the street. And I like I had a bell on it. And I have this incredible experience on a wonderful vacation and weekend in Nashville. And it was so much fun. And that's the type of thing that you could do all the time, you could do five or six of those in the season easily without compromising other things in your life, like family or work or other commitments, but still have that sense of accomplishment and training and structure and all the wonderful benefits you get from the sport. And that's something that we're committed to is not only growing and supporting short course grassroots racing, but also helping to change and shift that perspective that the sport isn't just about the long, epic distances. It's also something that super accessible, whether it's a six year old doing their first ever event or an 88 year old legend, there's something for everybody in distance and in format and then and in your local area.

Paul Weigel: 00:14:47

I think it's great that you're mentioning you use the bike cruiser, and that's and sometimes of just pulling things together. Yeah. I mentioned that first race I did when I had just started chemotherapy. Bing was on my cervello. And it was brand new. And I thought it was, well, I didn't think I was going fast but a 75 year old woman on a mountain bike, basically beach cruiser totally cruise past me. And I was like this is, this is not a good sign about about how I'm doing. What you're doing point I was thinking some about, we've got, we've got four peaks racing here in Arizona. And then I mean, where I really got introduced into the triathlon world was because of booty racing, which used to be up in the Pacific Northwest. And thank goodness it was a quarter mile swim to begin with, because it's taken me a long time to build up to that 2.4. But it is very cool to see how things have gone on. And I think part of that part of that Tyson, you mentioned some or I've read some about the USA Triathlon Foundation, there's some different aspects to that, probably the tie in to this.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:15:56

Totally. So the foundation is our fundraising arm. And what they do is they really, their purpose is how do we connect USA triathlons, programmatic needs, with the values of individuals who have the ability to give. And so we have three core pillars that we fundraise against diversity, equity, inclusion, and access is the first in no particular order. The second is youth. And then the third is high performance or Olympic and Paralympic. So across these three areas, these are the future of the sport. And it takes a lot of resource to make an impact. And this is where we're seeing incredible generosity from individuals who are funding these programs. In a way on the high performance side. I'll give one example. The mallows Audra and Michael Mallow this incredible triathlete couple that lives in California, who they themselves are not only tremendously successful individuals, but they're also very successful athletes. And they're really passionate about the Olympic pipeline. And they're really passionate about helping get more people into that pipeline. So like we talked about, it's not a scholastic sport. So we have to work really hard to identify individuals, and then to bring them into the system and help develop them into elite level athletes that can compete at the world level. And they funded the first ever eu 23, under 23, essentially, young adult development pathway program that never existed before they made their contribution. And because of them, we now have the up and comers who we are identifying and developing that are hopefully going to be on the podium and in Los Angeles in 2028. And that's only possible because of their generosity. And so it's people like Audra and Michael or John and Dave, who I mentioned earlier, who are funding these youth program initiatives called USA kids try. There's there's another donor who gave us a significant amount of money that we're now giving away in six specific diversity, equity, inclusion and access grants to help fund some of these grassroots programs and and individuals that I mentioned earlier. So that's all because of the philanthropy side of the business. And if if there's anybody out there who's passionate about growing the sport, we can assure you that we will be wonderful, wonderful stewards of your money and put it through good work.

Paul Weigel: 00:18:28

That's a nice way to say that nicely done. Yes. So well, in the competition level, obviously, we talked about the grassroots and the USA, USA, United States, we're divert, we're spread out we're not centralized. And the competition level, especially since we don't necessarily we don't have it at the college level. Finding and growing those elite athletes is hard, especially compared to anywhere else where they seem to be growing up and growing just out of the ground, you can pick them up here and there. Right. So that's, that's a big part of that effort, as well.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:19:02

And Paul, what a lot of people don't know, because there isn't a lot of visibility around it is that the Olympic style racing is very different than what you see in your local communities. So the race that you and I met at was a draft legal sprint triathlon. Now what that means is, everybody can draft in the swim, right? You're trying to stay on someone's feet without annoying them to get that benefit. But when you get on the bike, if it's an Iron Banner, your local race, the likelihood is that it's not draft legal meaning you can't benefit from the person in front of you. For the most part, you try and stay far away and not get caught. And then on the run, and then in the run, you could run together but because you're competing in your age group, you don't really know how you're competing against someone on the run. But in draft legal, it's you swim together in a pack, and then it's almost like a mini Tour de France on the bike. Right You're there's five tactics you're biking in a peloton, and then you're running it PACs and so it's very, very different and you're doing it on tight circuits. So the way I describe it to people is, you know, if you were to compare this to track and field triathlon that you experienced on a regular weekend is more like a 10k in a park. Triathlon, like the Olympics experience, it is like a track meet. It's, yeah, totally different. And so what our challenge is, is that we're trying to identify talent for sport that doesn't have a lot of visibility, and it doesn't have a lot of race opportunity at a high elite level. So in order for these young people to test their mettle, they have to be able to compete internationally for a 17 year old to fly to Uruguay to do a race pretty darn tough. And so that's one of the reasons to why philanthropy is so important because it takes a lot of resources to create an Olympian. You know, Kevin McDowell, who was our lowest ever or highest ever, I guess, depends on how you think about it. I think it was six overall and Tokyo. Yeah. So our most successful male Olympian, it took him something like 60 or 70, international events to compete at that level. You think about how expensive that is? Those are the types of things that we're that we're investing in is getting these athletes racing because it doesn't exist in the United States, like it does in France, or Germany, or these smaller, very tight knit elite level draft legal focused race communities. In

Paul Weigel: 00:21:33

such a big mind shift change to have were so much of being in being a triathlete. It's becomes an individual sport, or at least for me, because I'm so far back in the pack. Yeah, everybody's past. So the swim, everybody's gone. And especially it becomes the watchdog for me. Jogging, right. But the the aspect of switching it from being an individual sport to being a team does take a different mindset to to be able to get there.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:22:01

So it doesn't it's the complexities of both team and individual. So it is a very complex sport.

Paul Weigel: 00:22:06

For sure. You mentioned the Olympics, what should we be expecting in the Olympics and what just a couple months

Unknown: 00:22:13

prior fireworks, it's gonna work suitable. So we're focused on what the Olympics and the Paralympics starting with the Olympic side. We have already punched tickets for Taylor Knibb. Now, for those of you know, Taylor Knibb, which I know a lot of people do, this is big news. She is the first ever triathlete to qualify for both the Olympics and triathlon. And in cycling, she just crushed and one cycling Time Trial nationals qualifying her for the Olympics in cycling. So she is going to be a two sport Olympian this summer. She will be a medal contender, both sports she's unreal. So very exciting. Looking forward to watching her the other athletes who's who has already confirmed their spot on the team is Morgan Pearson, Morgan Pearson, an incredible athlete both in triathlon and in running. I think he just placed fourth and cross country nationals. He is an incredibly talented single sport athlete as well. And he had a huge win last weekend in Yokohama at the highest level race. He's going into Cagliari this weekend, wearing number one on his back. So that's a really big deal. And he's already going to be going to Paris. So what's left now is we have to decide who is going to fill the other two spots we have available for women in one spot for men. So that's happening over the next couple of weeks. And a lot of that will be influenced by the dynamics of what happens if the World Triathlon racing Cagliari this weekend so if you're listening before Saturday, you need to watch Cagliari World Triathlon Series race on the parricide. We are set up to have more medals than any country has ever received in the Paralympic Games. We have such an incredibly talented deep field across both men and women in all categories of paratriathlon that are being competed in the Paralympics. So a lot of those athletes have already secured their spots, we still have a few more potentially to give. But that's really exciting. And those, those games will be in early September. That's

Paul Weigel: 00:24:23

really amazing. It's really amazing. And you and I've talked some about stories and how many great stories there are within the triathlon world, whether diversity equity inclusion, dealing with disabilities or additional aspects. It is just such a wonderful way that people can have that access. I certainly hope that NBC is paying attention to all this and they're highlighting. This is highlighting the triathlon world especially the dual athlete part that that becomes a neat little thing.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:24:54

If they know what's good for him. They're gonna cover it. It's a great story

Paul Weigel: 00:24:57

to over reach out to Payton's See what he has to say about? So a little bit of a shift. And thank you so much for your time. You know, we've talked about that the name of this, this podcast is called gut checks. And I think that we've talked a lot about it within the transplant community tangentially. But what does it gut check mean to you? And what are some good checks, whether it be personally or professionally, you had, I,

Victoria Brumfield: 00:25:22

I love this concept of a gut check. I actually, I lean very heavily on intuition. And it doesn't mean that you don't make decisions that are influenced by data and experience. And, you know, you have to make very calculated decisions when you're running an organization that impacts so many people's lives. And at the same time, I'm a really big believer in to leaning into my values, my experience, and in my understanding of whatever it is, I'm making a decision about, and really leaning into what feels right. I think I give a small example of when I took this job, right, like, right, nobody told me to take this job every single person told me not to. But what I realized, Paul, is that when I was talking about the options that I had in front of me, I could feel myself get excited about USA Triathlon, I could feel myself making a decision just by how I communicated the options. And I think about that a lot. And I think, I think doing a gut check really matters. And it's complicated, too, because it's so muddied by insecurity, or, you know, lack of confidence, or uncertainty, or all these things that can muddy, what we believe about ourselves and what we believe is possible. One example that just popped into my mind, and I don't know if this is a gut check, but it's, it's leaning into maybe a sense of what's possible and just trying it. You know, I've never been a talented athlete. I've always loved sports. I'm, well, actually, I take that back. When I say love sports. I'm not a team sport person. I didn't grow up playing Team sports. I was an avid golfer. When I was young. My dad was a Country Club Golf Pro. So I grew up on the golf course playing. That was how I got to spend time with my dad, and I grew up riding horses. I've always been a huge lover of of riding horses, and that's, you know, very athletic, and I skied and snowboarded and all those things, but very individual never, I never did anything competitively. I just always did it for the love of it. And when I first moved to New York City, I didn't know anybody and I just started doing races in the park, because that was right there. And I live near Central Park. And so I started doing these running races. And then I got involved in triathlon, and I started doing triathlon, and, you know, I got injured running. So then I started doing more bike racing. And I started doing real bike racing my categorize USA Cycling bike racing, I'm actually big USA Cycling fan, I've got don't tell triathlon, but I've got their water bottle on my, on my on my desk. But I remember I did probably two years of bike racing, where I never won a single race. And I remember just thinking, Oh, I just, I feel really lucky to be able to stick with the pack and not get dropped. And I feel lucky. And I feel you know, happy and I'm proud of myself. But I never went for a win. And then one day, I was in a bike race. And I remember it was in Hunter mountain in New York. And I just remember thinking like, what if, what if I could sprint? What if I could win a race. And I've never had this mentality, but I just went for it. And I, I won by like three or four bike links, I had this amazing sprint, and then I won every race after that for like, the next five or six races. And then of course, I got my head and it all fell apart. But I eventually upgraded to Cat two, which is a big, you have to win races to upgrade from four to three to two. And I ended up having a really successful fun, amateur cycling experience. My point of this whole story is it was my gut that told me I should try something I didn't know was possible for myself. And there was no data. There was no information. There was no coach, there was nobody telling me you're capable of this. But it was something inside me that said, I wonder if I am. Why not try. And sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. But that's something that I think about all the time. And I try and be as aware of how I'm experiencing decisions in my life every day to write said, what I should do with what I feel I should do.

Paul Weigel: 00:29:30

There's so much powerful power in what you said of having a sense of what's possible. Then I've had a little bit of a mirror of that statement where I've always gone back to actually it's the movie a field of dreams and the Field of Dreams says if you believe in the impossible, the incredible can come true. And it's very similar thing that if you there are so many things whether it's work or day to day activities or a race that if you are thinking to that next level of no I can't but I can have where can you go? So that wonderful? I believe that is. So as you're thinking about your next steps, you mentioned Lake Placid and and Mike did tell me that he is for sure going to be there. And he's he told me he also said that he never said he was retiring. They just kind of said that he was but that he's going to do show he's going to do races that he wants to do now. Yeah. So besides Lake Placid What's up for you?

Victoria Brumfield: 00:30:29

So I love to race. I do. I probably did. 10 or so triathlons last year, mostly short stuff. This year. I've I did my first 50k run. That was I did that back in March. And then I did Oceanside in April. And I'm doing this big epic gravel race called unbound gravel in Kansas next weekend. 205 Miles unsupported, really hard roads with 12,000 feet of climbing in Kansas, Kansas. Yeah, just constantly rolling death by 1000 cuts. So I'm doing that next week. And then after that all all eyes are on Lake Placid. And once I get through Lake Placid I'm just I'm looking forward to just enjoying the Olympics and Paralympics and taking some downtime. My intention there was to go do gravel nationals in September so I am going to try and get that in. I love I love gravel triathlon.

Paul Weigel: 00:31:30

I will have to look at that I know you were planning on doing one down here in Arizona and I think you came up with a cold right at that time, so

Victoria Brumfield: 00:31:37

I did I got really sick it was right before the Belgian waffle ride. Yeah, that's what it

Paul Weigel: 00:31:41

was. Right. So okay, I know you and I talked briefly for a while that you might be doing an Ironman California, but if you've moved on past that you're going to grab a ride. So let's hear you there.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:31:51

Well, Paul, I would love to do Ironman, California. I'm technically registered for it. But I'm traveling almost every week from from August to November so I think it'll be pretty hard to stay fit. But what I love about it is that downriver swim like Ah, just for the downriver swim, I might still go

Paul Weigel: 00:32:16

is, as I mentioned, I'm toward the back of the paddock, and sometimes it is looking. I started looking at the clock of how many more miles and how will I be the cut off? So I think that'll buffer if the downriver swim in the flat. racecourse is exciting for me.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:32:32

I know. That's my dream, zero elevation plus a big push in the swim. Like, what more could you ask for other than a scooter on the run?

Paul Weigel: 00:32:41

And you know, and you know, I'm sure some people will be secretly doing this. So cool. So thank you so much for your time. Um, is there anything in closing statement you'd like to say to everybody? The stage is yours? Yeah. Well, I

Victoria Brumfield: 00:32:56

think I would just say, Paul, how much I appreciate your story, because I think that so many people have found strength in the sport, both in good times and in bad. And I just firmly believe that our sport is a lifelong sport, and it's never too late. And it's also, you know, it's not a one and done. It's something that you can do forever to stay healthy, to keep structuring your life to keep mental health and well being in your life. And I would also say that when we look back and how the sport started, every race that was created in the 80s, and 90s, and 2000s, for the most part, they were created by people like you and me, who just went out on a limb and said, I know of a great local race and a park or a great local lake in a park. Maybe I'll start a triathlon, maybe I'll go to my local pool and do a Splash and Dash for kids. Maybe I'll start a club so that I can have friends and community. And that's how the sport not only started, that's how the sport stays strong. So going back to this gut and intuition, I would I would just let sit in the back of your mind. Is there something that inspires you that you can do that can bring more people into the sport and change more lives? Because they found whatever it is that you started, whether it's swimming, biking, running as a club, as a coach, or even starting a race, and if you want to do it USA Triathlon is here to help.

Paul Weigel: 00:34:24

So wonderful way to finish. Vic, thank you so much for your time today. Really appreciate it.

Victoria Brumfield: 00:34:29

Thanks for having me, Paul. This was delightful.

Unknown: 00:34:32

It was Thank you